Seeking clarification on Rigveda recitation

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms
Hare Krishna

Kindly clarify whether we have to recite following Riks with deergha
svarita or svarita :

01. vAya ukthebhirjarante tvAmachhA jaritAraH - (ashtaka -1, adhyAya-1,
sUkta-2, varga-3) here 'bhir' in ukthebhiH should have deergha svarita or
svarita??
02. nAsatya vruktabarhishaH - (ashtaka-1, adhyAya-1, sUkta-3, varga-5)
here also same doubt whether barhishaH should have deergha svarita or
svarita??

Liwewise in 'manurhitaH' (sUkta-13) manurhitOgne (sUkta-14),
dhyubhiraktubhirhitaM (sUktka-34, adhyAya-3)

In printed version of Kannada Rigveda saMhita (Ramakrishna Mission
publication) these mantra-s have only 'svarita'. But my teacher asked me
to make correction. But when I heard 'saMhita' recitation elsewhere, only
'svarita' used while reciting these maNtra-s. I think we cannot say it is
pAtha bedha, because 'svara' itself differs in these maNtra-s. Kindly
clarify. My special request to Sri Vidya prabhuji and Sri Ananda Hudli
prabhuji.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

If a svarita ocurs before a pure repha, then the repha is pronounced with
what is termed as ardha-svarita accent in some rg-vedic traditions. It's
neither a dirgha svarita nor the usual svarita. The repha is kind of
replicated, but the svarita is not completely transferred to it, unlike for
example in the previous verse araN~!!kR^itAH. What I mean is, although the
svarita is supposed to be on the rakAra in araN~kR^itAH, the svarita is
transferred to the following anunAsika and the svarita also becomes dIrgha.
Here the rakara itself is pronounced udaatta samam. In the case you ask,
the bhi retains the svarita, but the repha is kind of replicated in a
svarita tone (same as the bhi), hard to explain, but easy to say.

This is quite different from both pANini as well as the taittiriiya
prAtishakhya, where it is explicitly mentioned that repha is *not* to be
duplicated.

There are variations on this between different rg vedic traditions.

Rama

Post by Bhaskar YR
praNAms
Hare Krishna
Kindly clarify whether we have to recite following Riks with deergha
01. vAya ukthebhirjarante tvAmachhA jaritAraH - (ashtaka -1, adhyAya-1,
sUkta-2, varga-3) here 'bhir' in ukthebhiH should have deergha svarita or
svarita??
02. nAsatya vruktabarhishaH - (ashtaka-1, adhyAya-1, sUkta-3, varga-5)
here also same doubt whether barhishaH should have deergha svarita or
svarita??
Liwewise in 'manurhitaH' (sUkta-13) manurhitOgne (sUkta-14),
dhyubhiraktubhirhitaM (sUktka-34, adhyAya-3)
In printed version of Kannada Rigveda saMhita (Ramakrishna Mission
publication) these mantra-s have only 'svarita'. But my teacher asked me
to make correction. But when I heard 'saMhita' recitation elsewhere, only
'svarita' used while reciting these maNtra-s. I think we cannot say it is
pAtha bedha, because 'svara' itself differs in these maNtra-s. Kindly
clarify. My special request to Sri Vidya prabhuji and Sri Ananda Hudli
prabhuji.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar
_______________________________________________
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[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Rama prabhuji
Hare Krishna

If a svarita ocurs before a pure repha, then the repha is pronounced with
what is termed as ardha-svarita accent in some rg-vedic traditions. It's
neither a dirgha svarita nor the usual svarita. The repha is kind of
replicated, but the svarita is not completely transferred to it, unlike
for
example in the previous verse araN~!!kR^itAH. What I mean is, although the
svarita is supposed to be on the rakAra in araN~kR^itAH, the svarita is
transferred to the following anunAsika and the svarita also becomes
dIrgha.
Here the rakara itself is pronounced udaatta samam. In the case you ask,
the bhi retains the svarita, but the repha is kind of replicated in a
svarita tone (same as the bhi),

Thanks a lot for your kind clarification prabhuji.

hard to explain, but easy to say.

Yes, you are right prabhuji. I could follow whatever you said

above...But still I am uncertain with regard to saMhita maNtra-s and style
of its recitation as per printed version. As you know in printed Sanskrit
books, svara marking i.e. deergha svarita (two vertical lines on the
letter) will not be there and in Kannada printed books both svarita
(single vertical line) and deergha svarita (two vertical lines) printed
clearly to ease the veda maNtra recitation. Since I follow the printed
Kannada book for learning, I got confused when my teacher says deergha
svarita (two lines)in place of svarita coz. in my book it has only svarita
(single line).

This is quite different from both pANini as well as the taittiriiya
prAtishakhya, where it is explicitly mentioned that repha is *not* to be
duplicated.

There are variations on this between different rg vedic traditions.

Yes, there are two different types of rig veda recitation prevalent

here. One is called kanchi pAtha and another is called Mysore pAtha. But
the difference in svara what I am talking is within the style of Mysore /
shrungeri pAtha.

Thanks once again for your time prabhuji.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

BTW, if you have determined that your guru is from a traditional gurukulam
and is a good teacher (which I assume you must have since you are learning
from him), you should just follow what he says and not solicit advice from
people you don't know, especially on the internet. I realize that I am
shooting myself in the foot somewhat, given my previous reply. But just
take it as a friendly suggestion.

Rama

Post by Bhaskar YR
praNAms
Hare Krishna
Kindly clarify whether we have to recite following Riks with deergha
01. vAya ukthebhirjarante tvAmachhA jaritAraH - (ashtaka -1, adhyAya-1,
sUkta-2, varga-3) here 'bhir' in ukthebhiH should have deergha svarita or
svarita??
02. nAsatya vruktabarhishaH - (ashtaka-1, adhyAya-1, sUkta-3, varga-5)
here also same doubt whether barhishaH should have deergha svarita or
svarita??
Liwewise in 'manurhitaH' (sUkta-13) manurhitOgne (sUkta-14),
dhyubhiraktubhirhitaM (sUktka-34, adhyAya-3)
In printed version of Kannada Rigveda saMhita (Ramakrishna Mission
publication) these mantra-s have only 'svarita'. But my teacher asked me
to make correction. But when I heard 'saMhita' recitation elsewhere, only
'svarita' used while reciting these maNtra-s. I think we cannot say it is
pAtha bedha, because 'svara' itself differs in these maNtra-s. Kindly
clarify. My special request to Sri Vidya prabhuji and Sri Ananda Hudli
prabhuji.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Rama prabhuji
Hare Krishna

BTW, if you have determined that your guru is from a traditional gurukulam
and is a good teacher (which I assume you must have since you are learning
from him), you should just follow what he says and not solicit advice from
people you don't know, especially on the internet.

My Rigveda teacher is just around 20 years old and a fresher from

shrungeri pAthashAla. He has learnt kramAnta and he almost knows & recite
all saMhita maNtra-s by heart. But I dont think he knows the rules of
svara-s & Sanskrit grammar in detail. Recently we both went for some veda
pArAyaNa programme, where we had to recite maNtra-s with some other
ritviks, others just recited those maNtra-s with svarita whereas we both
recited those same maNtra-s with deergha svarita. You know how it would
be when same maNtra has been recited with different svara-s in a sabha!!.
Later on I asked him about this difference, he could not explain it in
detail, he just said it is pAtha bedha, but I didnot think that way since
those other ritviks have learnt these maNtra-s in our style only i.e.
shrungeri pAtha !!

I realize that I am shooting myself in the foot somewhat, given my
previous reply. But just
take it as a friendly suggestion.

Thanks for your kind suggestion prabhuji. I thought, by asking this

question in forum I would get more authentic answer.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar

[Anand Hudli]

Post by Bhaskar YR
01. vAya ukthebhirjarante tvAmachhA jaritAraH - (ashtaka -1, adhyAya-1,
sUkta-2, varga-3) here 'bhir' in ukthebhiH should have deergha svarita or

svarita??

Post by Bhaskar YR
02. nAsatya vruktabarhishaH - (ashtaka-1, adhyAya-1, sUkta-3, varga-5)
here also same doubt whether barhishaH should have deergha svarita or
svarita??

Here, the svara should be svarita rather than dIrghasvarita. However,
in the Vishnu sUkta of the second adhyAya,the svara should be
dIrghasvarita at the end of viShNur (ato devA avantu no yato
viShNurvichakrame). Again, in sUkta 26, varga 20, the svara on the "a"
in aryamA (varuNo mitro aryamA) should be dIrghasvarita. Note that in
these two cases, the svara occurs before semivowels, but not in the
cases that you cited. I vaguely remember a rule regarding this but I
cannot find it with the limited access I have currently to my texts.


Anand

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Ananda Hudli prabhuji
Hare Krishna

Thanks a lot for your kind clarification. If your time permits some time
kindly provide me the rule in detail or kindly let me know where can I
find these rules in printed versions.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar



From: Anand Hudli <anandhudli-***@public.gmane.org>
To: advaita-l-4gKAAF5ltrLLd2BZh+***@public.gmane.org,
Cc: Bhaskar YR/BAN/INABB/***@ABB
Date: 11/28/2013 08:46 AM
Subject: Seeking clarification on Rigveda recitation

Post by Bhaskar YR
01. vAya ukthebhirjarante tvAmachhA jaritAraH - (ashtaka -1, adhyAya-1,
sUkta-2, varga-3) here 'bhir' in ukthebhiH should have deergha svarita or

svarita??

Post by Bhaskar YR
02. nAsatya vruktabarhishaH - (ashtaka-1, adhyAya-1, sUkta-3, varga-5)
here also same doubt whether barhishaH should have deergha svarita or
svarita??

Here, the svara should be svarita rather than dIrghasvarita. However, in
the Vishnu sUkta of the second adhyAya,the svara should be dIrghasvarita
at the end of viShNur (ato devA avantu no yato viShNurvichakrame). Again,
in sUkta 26, varga 20, the svara on the "a" in aryamA (varuNo mitro
aryamA) should be dIrghasvarita. Note that in these two cases, the svara
occurs before semivowels, but not in the cases that you cited. I vaguely
remember a rule regarding this but I cannot find it with the limited
access I have currently to my texts.

Anand

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste
Some people say we should say the Veda Mantras without Kampana. I heard
some people are saying Mantras with trembling voice. The shaking voice is
Kampana. It is a Dosha to be avoided by Vaidikas. Many people in South
India are saying Yajur Veda and others with a shaking voice. It is pleasing
to hear but it is a defect. In music concert the musician sometimes will
sing with shaking voice. It gives a nice effect and enjoyment to listeners.
But in Veda it is not allowed. Some very old Vaidikas will have a trembling
voice in saying Mantras.

Kampanam Naama Svaraashrita Paathadoshaha Praayena Daakshinatyaanaam
Bhavati. Tam Upalakshya Sa Varjyaha.

Trans - The Kampana is a Defect in recitation of Svaras. Mostly it is
present in South Indians. They must observe it and avoid it.

Trembling voice is caused by shaking vocal cords.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/otolaryngology/specialty_areas/voice_center/conditions/vocal_tremor.html

'Vocal tremor is caused by trembling or shaking vocal cords. Most vocal
tremor may be a component of neurologic essential tremor, though other
neurologic disease can also cause tremor.

Generally seen in an aging population, voice tremor causes the voice to
take on a wavering, unsteady quality.'